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Post by Emcee on Jun 15, 2006 21:31:02 GMT -5
Connor's plans for a getaway with Salome are spoiled when Angel and Spike come for his birthday. Then when the Rileys come to visit, Connor is torn between two families.
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Post by bvfan Randy Giles on Jun 16, 2006 0:34:11 GMT -5
Well worth the wait great episode. (Proper thoughts on the epsiode after i sleep)
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Post by Xandrew on Jun 16, 2006 0:54:47 GMT -5
CLIFFHANGER!!! I Hate Cliffhangers!!!!! arrrgh, what happens next? ?
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Post by firelakie on Jun 16, 2006 17:19:05 GMT -5
This episode was well worth the wait. Emcee was right, the Angel eavesdropping on his kid was creepy. But it worked. The juxtaposition between Dad-Angel and Dad-Riley could have been more developed though(don't hate me!). My thing is, no one could spot Angelus(the imposter) right on? He was sooo obvious. Great epi, looking forward to more.
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lala
Stanford Student
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Post by lala on Jun 17, 2006 11:47:32 GMT -5
Even though Angelus was obvious to us, it probably wasn't to the characters because barely any of them truly knew Angel. Spike is the one notable exception, and he spent most of his un-life in Angelus's company, so he might be more used to the soulless version. After all, compared to over a hundred years of Angelus, a few years of Angel isn't that influential. Not to mention the fact that Spike had very little interaction with Angelus in this episode. He probably guessed that Angelus's behaivour was just Angel being nervous around Connor (especially with the added surprise of the Rileys). Connor was uncertain of his relationship with Angel, so Angelus's word weren't an indicator of the lack-of-soulage so much as his fears come to life. And no one else really knew Angel or Angelus at all, except for Andrew, who is... well, he's Andrew.
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Post by Emcee on Jun 18, 2006 18:35:03 GMT -5
I'm sorry about the cliffhanger. I know it's a bitch, but it had to be done.
Firelakie, I would have liked to put in more Juxtaposition between Angel and Lawrence, but it's a time issue. This episode had something like a dozen characters that all needed some bit and there just wasn't a lot of time to do so. Angel and Lawrence will come up again in the second part, so there will be some more.
Lala pretty much nailed exactly why no one was able to tell the difference between Angel and Angelus. Connor wasn't able to tell because he always thinks the WORST of his interactions with Angel and Spike just isn't familar with how Angel and Connor interact. Salome, Jamie, Oni, Mandy and even Andrew have only had limited contact with Angel and absolutely NONE with Angelus, so it's not surprising they shouldn't be able to tell the difference.
Also, when you think about it, they actually DID pick up on it pretty quickly. Angelus came out around 2:00-3:00 am, then they went home and went to their separate corners, in the morning, Connor had his interlude with Salome, spent a few minutes with Angelus and the comment to Salome made him start to think, he spent a bit of time with Salome on the porch and went to talk to Angel. He was upset by the talk and ran off. But then he realized what happened... So really, it only took about an hour or so for Connor to figure out what had happened.
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Post by starstruck2k4 on Jun 19, 2006 0:03:48 GMT -5
I loved this episode!! I'm glad you split into two parts after all- there was a lot of story that needed to be developed and I think you did a fantastic job of that.
Angelus is always an awesome addition to it, and I'm a Spike-lover, so that was perfect. And the talk between Salome and Mrs Riley- priceless. I loved it. It was so sweet and touching, and hopefully she takes away from it that she's still Connor's mother even if she really isn't.
Can't wait for the next one!!
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Post by vamp19762000 on Jun 19, 2006 2:27:21 GMT -5
I loved this episode. Having Angelus around is always a good time. I'm a huge Angelus fan - my two year old son's name is Ryley Angelus. I'm very excited to see how this plays out.
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Post by Buffy8Fan on Jun 26, 2006 16:50:00 GMT -5
I did and didn't like this episode. I loved the interaction between everyone who were going to be obviously uncomfortable. I loved to Connor's "half" sister wasn't uncomfortable and I loved Angelus.
I didn't like that it was obvious they would find out seconds before the episode ended that he lost his soul and I didn't like that even with the fighting and funny interactions this episode just seemed to be a exposition for the upcoming second parter.
Other than that it was wonderful.
I hope the next episode comes out soon.
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Post by Emcee on Jun 26, 2006 21:23:14 GMT -5
I know that only finding out about Angelus at the end of the episode is pretty cliche... But the thing is, there are some cliches that are necessary. There's no other way we could end this two-parter other than finding out about Angelus. Any earlier and the end of the episode would have been a let-down.
This most definitely is not exposition until the upcoming two-parter. Connor's relationship with Angel is very important and I think we really need to address Connor's feelings about his father's other half. This season is really about exploring the sins of Connor's past, primarily S4 and Connor-Angelus were a big part of S4.
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Post by vamp19762000 on Jun 28, 2006 2:58:59 GMT -5
I was kind of disappointed that they didn't have more interaction between Connor and Angelus during season 4. The conversation between them in the basement was good but that was all they really did with them. I was expecting a whole lot more. Then again I thought they could have done a lot more with Connor anyway. But that's why I love fan fiction. Fans know how to treat Connor right.
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Post by Emcee on Jun 28, 2006 16:33:08 GMT -5
This two-parter was inspired by the fact that I didn't think Angelus and Connor had enough interaction in S4. The basement scene was WONDERFUL, but it really wasn't enough. Also, we never got to see Angelus and Connor fight. While we saw lots of Angel and Connor fights, I thought we needed to see a real knockdown. Angelus is, of course, Angel's dark half and will fight fiercer... And, as Wes revealed last year, Connor holds back, something I think he's started to get out of in TNP. So a fight will be a lot more intense.
I was also dying to address what Angelus' plans were for the person who makes him feel closest to human. We know, with his obsessions with Buffy and Cordelia, he likes to strike who made Angel feel the most human. Yet in S4 Angelus almost completely left the ONE person who IS Angel's humanity alone.
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Post by vamp19762000 on Jun 29, 2006 20:32:30 GMT -5
The fact that Angelus pretty much left Connor alone really surprised me too. I thought he'd at least want some revenge for the whole under water adventure because I'm sure he was suffering right along with Angel on that one. And the fact the Connor is Angel's child I would have figured he'd want to hurt Connor so that he could hurt Angel. But they did a lot in S4 that I didn't understand.
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Post by Sahugani on Jun 29, 2006 21:44:19 GMT -5
All I can say is this. WOOOT! Angelus is back! I've always thought Angel was a better character when he was evil.
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lala
Stanford Student
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Post by lala on Jul 2, 2006 12:00:20 GMT -5
I liked the Connor/Angelus interaction, too. Can't wait for more, BTW. But what I want to know is if Angelus wants to torment Connor the way he went after Buffy - or, more specifically, the way he went after the people Buffy cared about. And, if he does, will it be because he wants to make Connor suffer for being Angel's real link to humanity, or will it be because he wants Angel to suffer by seeing/knowing what Angelus is doing to Connor, or will it be a mixture of both... and does that question make any sense at all, or did I just descend into akward ramblyness? Actually, a better question would be "Is there a right way to spell ramblyness?" But back to the episode. What about Spike and Angelus? How will Spike react to his old "pal" being back? When we first saw Spike, waaaay back in "School Hard", he calledl Angelus his Yoda, but now that Spike's been all soulified, what's he gonna do? And, last but not least, the most important question of this absurdly long post awaits...Will Andrew freak out when he "meets" Angelus for real? And afterwards (because Angelus cannot stick around forever) will there be amusing twitchiness around Angel?
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